What's Going On Downtown?

People have many questions about downtown Springfield. What’s going on in the district? Is it safe? And what will it take to write the next chapter in its story?

By Tessa Cooper, Ettie Berneking, Lucie Amberg and Jo Jolliff

May 2023

Aerial photo of downtown Springfield MO
Photo by Leah Stiefermann Purchase Photo

When I think about downtown Springfield, I think about happy memories, like the night that Billy, John and Karen McQueary first welcomed guests to Vantage Rooftop Lounge and Conservatory, revealing a spectacular new way to look at our city. I think of all the times I’ve picked up pastas and cakes from Jenny Russo at St. Michael’s. I think about fireworks at Springfield Cardinals games and sweet faces peering at macarons in the cases of European Café. I remember the evening my family joined hundreds of 417-landers in Park Central Square to celebrate as a spruce from our yard became the City of Springfield’s Christmas tree. And the time we grabbed supper at Prairie Pie before walking through a magical twilight to catch a movie at Moxie Cinema. All of these warm feelings—I associate them with downtown.

When I’m downtown—say, walking from my car to meet a friend for coffee—I’m often approached by someone asking for money. I have compassion for anyone whose circumstances are such that they feel compelled to ask a passerby for help, and intellectually, I know that person probably means me no harm. But by this point in my life, I’ve experienced so many sticky situations that when any stranger, especially a male stranger, approaches me on the street, my whole body goes into high-alert mode. And unfortunately, that’s another feeling I associate with downtown.

In our interview with Springfield Chief of Police Paul Williams, we ask, “Is downtown safe?” Williams says that it is and supplies statistics to back up his statement. Regardless, people tell us that they sometimes feel unsafe downtown. This may be because we tend to mix our concerns about crime with our concerns about homelessness, even though they’re separate issues. In fact, according to research, including data from the peer-reviewed journal The Lancet, a person who’s homeless is more likely to be a victim of crime than someone who has housing. This makes sense—someone who’s living without the benefit of housing is in a uniquely vulnerable position. Still, in that moment when a stranger approaches me on an empty sidewalk, I feel vulnerable, and it affects how I feel about being downtown.

So how do you contend with a feeling? One theory, articulated by Jane Jacobs in her 1961 book The Death and Life of Great American Cities, holds that downtown neighborhoods feel safer when there are more people around. Jacobs believed that empty spaces can feel lonely, abandoned—a little unsafe. But the same spaces can feel vibrant and secure when the sidewalks are busy and the vibe is bustling.

Echoing this idea, many of the sources we spoke to for this story mentioned the importance of getting more people downtown. The big question is: What might make that happen? John McQueary hopes to see more creative professionals opening offices downtown. Jenny Russo would like more retail in the district. Tim O’Reilly is optimistic about the ability of upscale destinations to lure people downtown. Brad Erwin wants more people to work—and live—in the neighborhood. “The more activity you have, the safer it becomes and the more people feel comfortable to come downtown,” he says. Two business owners, Benjamin Sapp and David Bauer, bring up a practical consideration that may be keeping workers away: parking. Bauer also proposes a surprising idea for where the City of Springfield might designate additional parking spaces.

No matter what downtown’s future looks like, it will have an outsized impact on the future of our region. Bauer tells us: “If something’s going wrong, I always go right back to the center. I go back to the core and work my way out... That’s what should happen downtown.” Downtown Springfield is core to 417-land. It’s the past and the future. It tells our story, and surely that story is big, rich and enduring enough to offer roles for each of us.—Lucie Amberg

Tim O'Reilly
Photo by Leah StiefermannConstruction on Tim O’Reilly’s much-anticipated Moxy Hotel is targeting completion in November. Purchase Photo

A Downtown Story of Development: Tim O'Reilly

Developer of the Moxy Hotel by Marriott and CEO of O’Reilly Hospitality Management, LLC
When Tim O’Reilly purchased the 1920s-era, eight-story office building at 430 South Avenue in 2017, only a few tenants remained while most of the space was vacant. However, he had a vision for it.

Now, construction crews are restoring and transforming it into the Moxy Hotel, a boutique hospitality concept. Springfield’s Moxy Hotel location will feature 92 hotel rooms and an eclectic lobby full of entertainment, social, meeting and working spaces. Guest or not, anyone will be able to visit the site’s two food and beverage joints. At The Eyrie Rooftop Bar, you can soak in views of downtown before heading down to the Subterranean Jazz & BBQ Dive, a popup jazz and BBQ bar in the basement that will also double as a meeting and event space.

Marriott originally intended to target millennials for its Moxy Hotel locations in other cities—including Paris, Chicago and Nashville. “What Marriott found is that people of any age want to feel good about their surroundings,” O’Reilly says. “Instead of just 20- and 30-year-olds, you get a healthy mix of anyone from 20 to 70 years old.”

While this is his first project in downtown Springfield, his family has deep roots in the district. The first O’Reilly Auto Parts opened its doors in 1957 at what is now the Creamery Arts Center at 411 N. Sherman Parkway. “With its entertainment focus, The Moxy Hotel is really built for the downtown environment,” O’Reilly says. “When I started talking with Marriott about it, they strongly advised that it needed to coexist with other restaurants and entertainment venues. The building was obviously just a perfect fit.”

O’Reilly is excited to add another option for high-end accommodations and live entertainment downtown. “Downtown has had some challenges with hitting its stride on development and refurbishment of the old buildings, but I think that’s changing,” he says. “Every urban environment has its normal challenges, but I think Springfield does a great job of addressing them. The more upscale properties that we have downtown, the better because that’s going to draw more people, more attention, and more security.”

Factors like the COVID-19 pandemic and temporary issues with Missouri’s state tax credit administration process initially slowed the project down. However, it has since regained momentum. Construction began in late 2021, and has a target completion date of November 2023.Tessa Cooper 

A Big Question: Is Downtown Safe?

There’s a perception that downtown is unsafe—or at least less safe than it could be. We talked to Springfield Chief of Police Paul Williams about whether this perception is accurate and what can be done about it.
By Ettie Berneking

Biz 417: First off, what is downtown’s footprint on the community?
Paul Williams: What we define as downtown is the CID or community improvement district. Downtown means different things to different people. Some people think it’s just the square, some people think it’s anything north of Grand. But when we look at stats and crime, it’s the CID.

Biz: Do you think there’s still a perception that downtown is dangerous?
P.W.: Unfortunately, people who have lived their whole lives here still have a perception of downtown as dangerous, and they don’t venture out. Then people who move here think it’s great.

Biz: What do the crime stats show?
P.W.: We track two things: calls for service and reports. In downtown over three years, we’ve had about 2,500 calls for service total and only 1,600 actual reports. The biggest issue we get calls about is abandoned vehicles. People are concerned about things like assault or robberies or shootings. Yes that occurs, but it’s not frequent. We’ve had eight sexual assaults reported in three years. Now any one of those would be bad, but it’s not happening frequently. Robbery reports happen about five times a year.

Biz: As the number of events and businesses downtown has increased, has the police presence also increased?
P.W.: Last year when we rearranged our beats and deployment of officers, we put two full squads of officers downtown almost 24 hours a day. That’s about 20 people who work just the entertainment district alone.

Biz: Do business owners and residents think that’s enough?
P.W.: They almost always want more police, but we haven’t heard that since we added more officers. And the CID business owners all pay into a fund that pays for extra off-duty officers for events or extended hours during the day. And I’ll say safety is getting better downtown.

Biz: Do you think it’s getting better because there are now business owners who are invested in downtown being a safer environment?
P.W.: It goes both ways because we’re also invested in them. Each district around Springfield has a dedicated police liaison. Anytime someone wants to provide info, they have a point of contact with the police department. That liaison also attends the neighborhood association meetings to report on crime rates or talk about problems that might be arising. That’s been in place for more than 12 years. There’s a map of that on our website where you can find the officers’ names and contact info for each district. That liaison has meant there’s an increased level of communication.

Biz: What could business owners or residents do to improve safety?
P.W.: We do crime prevention through environmental design, so we encourage people when they’re opening a venue or a business to meet with us so we can advise them on how to make the space more inviting for customers and less inviting for criminals. But also, let us know if you have a camera. You can register it with us, so in case something happens, we can find the camera footage right away.

Biz: What would you tell people who don’t go downtown?
P.W.: If you haven’t been downtown in 20 years, go downtown. Go make a dinner reservation. Go to one of the festivals and start off with a daytime event. Go to Vantage and enjoy a drink on the rooftop bar. Go see an independent movie at The Moxie. It’s a vibrant area that I think most cities would love to have.

On the Horizon:
The YMCA Building

The brick and stone building that housed the downtown YMCA for more than a century holds a lot of history. So when it went up for auction in March, 417-landers held their breath. Bidding ensued. When Rolla-based Phelps County Bank, which has a track record of preserving historic buildings, submitted the winning bid, there was palpable relief. At press time, the deal wasn’t finalized; if all goes well, it will close in May.

On the Horizon:
History Museum on the Square 

History Museum on the Square has lots in the works for this summer, with new exhibits including Beyond the Camouflage: Global Uniforms starting May 24 until July 23 as well as adding a variety of new tours. Visitors can now enjoy a Route 66 Bus Tour - Get on the Mother Road with guide David J. Eslick, History Museum on the Square Ambassador and founder of the Route 66 Festival. To explore Springfield’s founding, growth and most notable history they will also be offering walking tours around downtown Springfield and Commercial Street. 

On the Horizon:
Pedestrian Engagement Alley 

John McQueary, co-owner of Hotel Vandivort, is working with other local downtown businesses to transform the lightly used alley behind Hotel Vandivort and Landers Theatre to an active pedestrian corridor. The goal is a safe and thriving area for pedestrians. To create this, they plan to resurface the street, create a pedestrian throughway at the dead end, replace the fencing along the east end and add low maintenance landscaping. There are also plans for murals and sculptures as well as string lights and signage to complete the new space.

Karen and John McQueary
Photo by Leah StiefermannKaren and John McQueary (pictured) and co-owner Billy McQueary opened Hotel Vandivort in 2015. “At the time, the things that were opening here were oriented towards young folks, which is great, but we wanted to create something that worked to help ‘grow up’ downtown,” Karen says. Purchase Photo

A Downtown Story of Hospitality: John and Karen McQueary

Co-Owners of Hotel Vandivort
Downtown entrepreneurship is a tradition that runs five generations deep in the McQueary family.

In 1913, William M. McQueary opened a drugstore on the corner of Madison and John Q. Hammons Parkway, a move that inspired his sons to establish the McQueary Brothers Drug Company in 1924. Fast forward about a century later, and Billy, John and Karen McQueary are keeping the family’s downtown legacy alive as co-owners and founders of Hotel Vandivort.

It was around 2010 when the three realized they wanted to contribute to the renaissance happening in Springfield’s center. “At the time, the things that were opening here were oriented towards young folks, which is great, but we wanted to create something that worked to help ‘grow up’ downtown,” Karen says.

“We approached it from the question of, ‘What’s the missing piece downtown, and what would be the most impactful thing that we could do?’” John says. “The obvious answer was an upscale hotel that could be a cultural and economic spark that would bring people downtown that would not normally be here.”

They found just the right building for the hotel concept in 2012 and began laying the foundation for Hotel Vandivort. Now, the business spans two buildings—the original building at 305 E. Walnut and the newly built V2 at 260 E. McDaniel. Hotel Vandivort draws in visitors and locals alike to its on-site restaurant, The Order; its rooftop bar, Vantage Rooftop Lounge and Conservatory; and 97 guest rooms.

From when Hotel Vandivort was just an idea to a decade later, the McQuearys have seen downtown through many changes. Local boutiques and restaurants have opened and closed, while the number of residential spaces has steadily increased.

While John wants to see these sectors thrive, there’s a different aspect he hopes to see the community prioritize for the next few years. “The thing I’m most excited about is seeing continued growth in professionals working downtown in creative firms,” John says. “I think that should be one of the big focuses going forward with the unknown of the future of retail.”—Tessa Cooper

A Big Question: What is Downtown’s Brand?

What do you think of when you think of downtown? We asked Jeff Houghton of The Writers’ Room Creative Comedy Agency, Chris Jarratt of Revel Advertising and Rusty Worley of Urban Districts Alliance about its image.
By Ettie Berneking

Biz 417: How would you describe downtown?
Jeff Houghton: I’d say downtown tilts more toward nightlife, but there’s certainly people out and about walking around during the day. I’ve been able to see both sides. I like to say I used to work the night shift downtown. I didn’t have kids, and it was more about coming out and doing shows. Now I do the day shift, and at 5 o’clock, I clock out and someone younger than me takes my spot.
Rusty Worley: Our slogan, “It’s all downtown,” has been in use for almost 20 years. There’s no doubt that the slogan is aspiration, but from my perspective, we’re the region’s home for dining, entertainment, education and community events.
Chris Jarratt: The challenge is it’s a lot of things to a lot of people. There’s not a cohesive viewpoint of what downtown is. It has great nightlife; it has great dining; it is a great destination for tourists for arts and cultural events. When you’re everything you can also be nothing.

Biz: What do you love about downtown?
J.H.: One of the things I love about it is it’s this place where all kinds of people go. It’s such a mix and I love that variety of people.
C.J.: The entrepreneurial spirit and collaboration feels unique compared to other cities. So many businesses choose downtown to test new concepts thanks to the efactory, and it’s a big part of the essence of downtown.
R.W.: I think the coffee shop culture and creative culture is a big part of downtown. It’s diverse and inclusive, and you can run into people you know, so there’s a small-town friendliness to it.

Biz: What is downtown missing?
J.H.: I’d like to see more housing. I think it can help create the critical mass that’s needed. There are also plenty of spots where new buildings could go up for offices or apartments… There’s a big footprint we can play with if developers are interested in building.
R.W.: There are still things we want to bring in like grocery stores, and Renew Jordan Creek will create creek-front property that we hope business owners and developers will put property around.

Biz: What do we need to do to compete with other downtowns like Bentonville?
J.H.: Step One: We need endless Walmart money. No honestly, I think critical mass is what will tip it to being a lively place at all hours. If people work down here or more students live downtown or take more classes downtown, that will bring in a mix of people and attract a mix of things to do.
C.J.:  From a business standpoint, I think we need to keep letting people know how great of an environment this is to start your business. From an agency owner standpoint, we could do more intentional initiatives to define the districts downtown and highlight the Grant Avenue project and the Jordan Creek project. Those can bring a visual grounding element to downtown that is recognizable like Hotel V.
R.W.: I think placemaking is a big focus for the City. Downtown has 400 businesses and a larger footprint, but we’re working on placemaking. We’re working on more outdoor lights, bringing in more outdoor seating, and continuing to lean in to the quality of place.

Biz: Why should people care about the health of downtown?
C.J.: Twenty years ago when I was graduating college and deciding if this is where I wanted to be, there was a lot of momentum downtown. Seeing that energy was what made me know I wanted to be here. Now, the Jordan Creek and Grant Avenue projects are new signs of continued investment. That’s important to attract and retain younger talent.
R.W.: There are ways for young professionals to get involved and shape the future of their downtown. That’s harder to do in a big city, but here you can really make a difference.

Jenny and Nick Russo
Photo by Leah StiefermannJenny and Nick Russo have owned St. Michael’s for 19 years. Nick tells us, “The staying power I attribute to knowing how to manage your business during the ebb and flow of the good times and the not-so-good times.” Purchase Photo

A Downtown Story from the Restaurant World: Nick and Jenny Russo

Owner-operators of St. Michael’s Restaurant & Catering
For nearly two decades, St. Michael’s has been dishing out hearty burgers, fresh soups and salads, hot and cold Italian subs, and dense cakes to keep downtowners well fed.

Owners Nick and Jenny Russo say there is nowhere they’d rather set up shop other than their post at the corner of South Avenue and East McDaniel Street. Barb Baker with the Urban Districts Alliance approached the couple about opening a restaurant downtown when the space became available, and they’ve been here ever since.

“Downtown has so much personality,” Jenny says. “We tried [running a restaurant] in a strip shopping center 20 years ago, and it just wasn’t the same. Here, we get professors, we get students and we get professionals. We have so many regulars that just walk here.”

Jenny works full-time at St. Michael’s as the head chef and baker while also overseeing the front- and back-of-house operations. Nick has owned and operated seven other restaurants in Springfield, but St. Michael’s is now his one and only. He spends his mornings readying the restaurant to open and managing the books before heading to work at Springfield Catholic High School, where he teaches English.

“Despite my 50 years in the industry in Springfield, this is Jenny’s restaurant,” Nick says. “What success we have experienced is all attributed to Jenny’s ability to manage employees, attract and keep customers and dedicate herself to creating a unique and meaningful experience for our patrons.” Multiple revenue streams also help the daytime restaurant stay profitable. St. Michael’s offers a pasta-forward menu exclusively for catered events and maintains a small wholesale cake operation for businesses like Derby Deli and Price Cutter.

Both Jenny and Nick say they feel supported by the Downtown Springfield Association and the City of Springfield. For example, during the peak of the COVID-19 pandemic, these organizations’ efforts allowed St. Michael’s to extend their outdoor seating area. Over time, the couple has seen downtown through many changes. “One thing I’d like to see is for more retail to come back again,” Jenny says.

“You feel bad when people’s dreams fail,” Nick says. “Although there are a lot of places that left, there are a number of places that have stayed. The staying power I attribute to knowing how to manage your business during the ebb and flow of the good times and the not-so-good.”Tessa Cooper

Brad Erwin
Photo by Leah StiefermannBrad Erwin moved Paragon Architecture’s offices downtown three years ago. “The lure for us on this west side is that we have the benefit of planting the flag and being a part of the growth and redevelopment,” he says. Purchase Photo

A Downtown Story from an Employer: Brad Erwin

President of Paragon Architecture
Paragon Architecture’s Springfield office relocated from the intersection of Glenstone and Cherry just three years ago, but it’s already a landmark for the revitalization of downtown’s west side. “There’s just something unique and special about downtown Springfield,” says Brad Erwin, president of Paragon Architecture. “From an everyday quality-of-life perspective, it’s just a little bit better than being in a random nondescript building on a busy corridor. Here, you get to be a part of a community of collective businesses and residences. The lure for us on this west side is that we have the benefit of planting the flag and being a part of the growth and redevelopment.”

The architecture firm specializes in designing commercial buildings and has additional offices in Joplin and St. Louis. As far as the Springfield location goes, downtown offers convenience. The architecture firm takes on several projects across Missouri; Erwin says having easy access to the interstate via Chestnut Expressway while still being within walking distance from the square has been a perk.

Paragon began operating from its downtown location just a few weeks before Springfield’s temporary stay-at-home order was in place. “Pre-pandemic, we were two blocks away from three breweries, from three coffee shops and numerous restaurants,” Erwin says. “Post-pandemic, it is a little different right now. Unfortunately, there have been some restaurants and bars that have closed. I think we’re just against a wall right now and looking for that upswing of what’s next and building back up.”

Regarding solutions for some of the challenges downtown faces, Erwin believes giving people a specific purpose for being downtown is key. “The more we can get people working and living downtown, the better it is for our community as a whole,” he says. “The more activity you have, the safer it becomes and the more people feel comfortable to come downtown. Foot traffic will drive more commerce and more economic development.”—Tessa Cooper

A Big Question: What About Parking?

We asked restaurateur David Bauer and Benjamin Sapp, partner in Sapp Design Architects, whether parking has influenced their business decisions about downtown.
By Lucie Amberg

Biz 417: Has parking affected your decisions about opening or moving your business downtown?
Benjamin Sapp: We’ve looked at a couple of buildings. Ultimately, [the obstacle has] been proximity and consistency of parking. If you’re going to have a business with professionals there every day, you don’t want them going on a daily scavenger hunt for parking.
David Bauer: One of the reasons I purchased the Harbell’s building is because I have a parking garage behind me and I have a parking lot next to me. At Mille’s [Café], I had a parking lot attached to my building that I paid to be able to operate myself… That’s a very big deal.

Biz: It sounds like parking has the potential to be a deciding factor when people are evaluating downtown locations.
B.S.: I’ve never had a terrible experience with event parking. But if you’re buying a building or leasing, it’s definitely going to be one of your top questions.

Biz: Which sections of downtown do you think have the biggest parking issues?
B.S.: Think about the Newberry building on the Square. It’s one of the only ones that hasn’t been developed. It’s 42,000 square feet. Regardless of what goes in that structure, parking will undoubtedly be a significant constraint to the redevelopment of it.
D.B.: Everything I do in business, if something’s going wrong, I always go right back to the center. I go back to the core and work my way out... That’s what should happen downtown... If there’s empty buildings on the Square, there’s a reason, so you’ve got to find the reason.

Biz: There’s public parking within a few blocks of Park Central Square, and there’s some nearby street parking. What additional options do you believe are needed?
D.B.: The design of the Square, it needs to be parking. When they want to do an event downtown, they can just close [the parking] off. They can design it so it still has the drive around the Square, but have some space as parking. Give those core people that are trying to keep that place going an opportunity.

Biz: So you think that there should be parking spaces in the Square itself?
D.B.: It will cause people to drive into the downtown area, looking for a parking spot. So that means more traffic, more visibility for people to see the businesses around there... You could make a smaller roundabout in the middle, and then still give people the patios [outside businesses overlooking Park Central Square] because those are great spots.

Biz: Do you consider parking a long-term, strategic issue for downtown?
B.S.: Right now, it’s probably a true statement that there’s plenty of free parking during the day. But if you’re looking at the long term and investing, you want to make sure you have a plan for future growth around you.

Biz: Do you think access to parking is connected to people’s sense of security?
D.B.: It all starts with security. If you can’t have people feel like they can be safe downtown, they’re not going to come downtown. 

Joy Bilyeu-Steele and Geoff Steele
Leah StiefermannHusband and wife Joy Bilyeu-Steele and Geoff Steele have led the Gillioz since 2014. Purchase Photo

A Downtown Story of Arts and Culture: Geoff Steele and Joy Bilyeu-Steele

Executive Director and Associate Director of the Gillioz Center for Arts & Entertainment
The majority of downtown Springfield buildings have lived many lives. But in 1926, the Gillioz opened as a theatre, and today, a theatre it remains.

Keeping this nearly century-old arts center in operation hasn’t always been an easy feat. In 1980, the theatre closed, only to reopen in 2006 as a 501(c)(3) nonprofit. Costly restoration work, coupled with the 2008 recession, drove the organization into bankruptcy. At the time, board member Bill Dunton approached Robert Low, founder and president of Prime Inc., and asked him to purchase the building from the bank. Low stepped in, the Gillioz stayed open, and he eventually gifted the building back to the nonprofit in 2015.

The Gillioz generates income through live performances, resident artistic companies and by leasing a portion of the first floor to Dublin’s Pass Irish Pub.

Geoff Steele and Joy Bilyeu-Steele have led the Gillioz since 2014. Steele has decades of experience in the recording and venue management industries. When the board began approaching Steele about the position, Bilyeu-Steele was immediately on board and also wanted to play a role in the revival. At the time, she had recently retired from her family’s popular Branson show, the Baldknobbers.

“When Geoff brought the idea to me, I really felt like it was a gift,” Bilyeu-Steele says. “One chapter I had closed on a theater that I had grown up with, but I felt like I was being given another theater to love and care for and keep going for generations to come. So once we signed the papers and everything, he brought me up on the stage and I cried.”

Steele has loved seeing downtown succeed in recent years. Prior to working at the Gillioz, he produced projects in a recording studio downtown when many buildings sat empty. “I remember at one point during a break in recording, we had walked by this theater, and it was completely shuttered and abandoned,” Steele says. “Downtown as a whole wasn’t thriving. Now, it has absolutely evolved.”

The couple believes there is positive energy in downtown’s creative arts community right now, and the district will continue flourishing in the coming years.Tessa Cooper

In Summary: Discussion Points

As we reported this story, we heard a fascinating mix of opinions, which we hope will spark real conversation about the future of downtown. These are just a few of the ideas that stuck with us.
By Lucie Amberg

“The more upscale properties... downtown, the better, because that’s going to draw more people, more attention and more security.”—Tim O’Reilly on the relationship between property development and security.

“There’s not a cohesive viewpoint of what downtown is. It has great nightlife; it has great dining; it is a great destination for tourists for arts and cultural events. When you’re everything, you can also be nothing.”—Chris Jarratt on downtown’s brand.

“We put two full squads of officers downtown almost 24 hours a day. That’s about 20 people who work just the entertainment district.” —Chief Paul Williams on police presence downtown.

“Right now, it’s probably a true statement that there’s plenty of free parking during the day. But if you’re looking at the long term and investing, you want to make sure you have a plan for future growth around you.”—Benjamin Sapp on the strategic importance of parking.

One more thing: The issue of homelessness was often in the background—and sometimes the foreground—of interviews we conducted for this story. We reached out to the City of Springfield multiple times to request an interview on this topic. The City didn’t supply a source before press time, but we’re hopeful that we’ll get to speak to someone about it. There are many people of good will working on this complex issue. If one of them talks to us, we’ll report it.